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      TIPS & FEATURES AEuro-Forum - READ!!   10/25/2016

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Michael Roberts

ECM Codes P1397 - P0327 - P0332 - P1411 - P0410

39 posts in this topic

VIN: WP0CA29852U620644
Production Month / Vehicle Year: July / 2002
Make: Porsche
Model: Boxster (986)
Engine: F6-2.7L
Transmission: Automatic 5-Speed 5 speed Automatic A86.05
Mileage: 76132
Affected System: Engine / Powertrain Engine / Mechanical / External
Description of Issue: Idle Quality
Scan Tool: Autel
Diagnostics / Tests Performed:

Customer reports purchasing vehicle with CEL on and Triptonic Display On. Engine has low rough
idle/dies at idle sometimes.

Found the following codes...

Airbag
03 Airbag warning supply

Alarm system
54 Radio receiver faulty
48 Airbag signal acknowledged

Automatic Transmission-Tiptronic
93 Coolant shutoff valve

DME
113 - Camshaft sensor bank 2 (P1397)
P0327 Knock sensor 1
P0332 Knock sensor 2
P1411 Secondary - air system, bank 2.
P0410 Secondary - air system, bank 1.

Can anyone confirm P1397 is 113 code for camshaft position sensor bank 2.
Autel is giving me a mix of P codes and manufacturer specific....

1) Coolant shut off valve is buried somewhere on this vehicle, but have not found it yet.
   ( Suspect it is leaking and diaphram bad )

2) Any interpretation on the DME codes?

Thanks

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P1397 113 can be defined as:

113 Camshaft position sensor 2 - above limit
113 Camshaft position sensor 2 - Below limit
113 Camshaft position sensor 2 - signal implausible
Camshaft Position Sensor 2 - Above Limit 
Camshaft Position Sensor 2 - Below Limit
Camshaft Position Sensor 2 - Signal Implausible

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11 minutes ago, Peter Reese said:

P1397 113 can be defined as:

113 Camshaft position sensor 2 - above limit
113 Camshaft position sensor 2 - Below limit
113 Camshaft position sensor 2 - signal implausible
Camshaft Position Sensor 2 - Above Limit 
Camshaft Position Sensor 2 - Below Limit
Camshaft Position Sensor 2 - Signal Implausible

Thanks for the clarification....

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Any "GOO Condition" in that engine, like lack of oil service??

GOOED Engines WILL cause Camshaft Position Reading Issues
If it comes down to verifying this, use a scope across the sensors, as
they are in parallel.

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10 minutes ago, Administrator said:

Any "GOO Condition" in that engine, like lack of oil service??

GOOED Engines WILL cause Camshaft Position Reading Issues
If it comes down to verifying this, use a scope across the sensors, as
they are in parallel.

Yea...this engine has clean oil in it, but the inside of it is sludged...

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You may want to FLUSH that oil system, a few times with filters first.

If you have access to BG Products, their oil system FLUSH is awesome.
Use 2 new filters, even the cheapo ones will do for flushing.

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25 minutes ago, Administrator said:

You may want to FLUSH that oil system, a few times with filters first.

If you have access to BG Products, their oil system FLUSH is awesome.
Use 2 new filters, even the cheapo ones will do for flushing.

Yes we use the BG flushes and new filters with each step....it is the only way to do it...

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Checking Camshaft adjustment

Connect scanner, monitor PIDS for actual values for camshaft adjustment in the data stream. 
accelerate engine to 4500 RPM slowly & check values for camshaft adjustment, the CAM angle deviation should be approx the same for bank 1 and bank 2.

If there's more than +/- 4 degrees difference between the adj value at any speed / RPM or if the values match at idle but become different at higher RPM, there's a problem with camshaft phaser adjustment, solenoid or secondary Chain / tensioner,  If the values are different @ idle, the basic camshaft timing is incorrect.

The cam timing can't be set without Porsche special tools - 9595, 9611, 9624, 9599, 9612, etc.

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22 minutes ago, Peter Reese said:

Checking Camshaft adjustment

Connect scanner, monitor PIDS for actual values for camshaft adjustment in the data stream. 
accelerate engine to 4500 RPM slowly & check values for camshaft adjustment, the CAM angle deviation should be approx the same for bank 1 and bank 2.

If there's more than +/- 4 degrees difference between the adj value at any speed / RPM or if the values match at idle but become different at higher RPM, there's a problem with camshaft phaser adjustment, solenoid or secondary Chain / tensioner,  If the values are different @ idle, the basic camshaft timing is incorrect.

The cam timing can't be set without Porsche special tools - 9595, 9611, 9624, 9599, 9612, etc.

Thanks for the info....funny thing is first time I heard of a cam "phaser" was on a Ford of all things...whatever
happened to "gear"? I am assuming because it is variable...

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First time I heard of "phaser" was on Star Trek (the original series, of all places!) :lol::D;)

 

It's possible to be sludge on the actuator solenoid-valves.

This might also be a timing chain issue as well. 

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6 minutes ago, Matt Conner said:

First time I heard of "phaser" was on Star Trek (the original series, of all places!) :lol::D;)

 

It's possible to be sludge on the actuator solenoid-valves.

This might also be a timing chain issue as well. 

Right!

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These phasers are on stun instead of kill lol

 

Anyway not a good pic but this is all I could find for the coolant shut off valve

58ed1ec4092ce_COOLANTSHUTOFF.jpg.16aed509b3183df514ebf6cd7a8c4948.jpg

 

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30 minutes ago, Skip St. John said:

These phasers are on stun instead of kill lol

 

Anyway not a good pic but this is all I could find for the coolant shut off valve

58ed1ec4092ce_COOLANTSHUTOFF.jpg.16aed509b3183df514ebf6cd7a8c4948.jpg

 

Better than nothing...Porsche does NOT list labor time and repair info according to Mitchell 1....
Has anybody replaced one on a 986 car?

Found it.....passenger side under the intake resonator above the transmission....any idea on estimating labor?

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I wonder how the coolant valve is setting a fault in the transmission module?

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2 minutes ago, Jivi Khehar said:

I wonder how the coolant valve is setting a fault in the transmission module?

Good question...it is just a vacuum valve controlled by change over valve via vacuum.

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Not too bad to swap heater valve < 2 hours

Remember to use airlift to vacuum cooling system, before filling.

@ Micheal  that is why i am wondering how it is being monitored?

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It may be an AUTEL wrong fault description?

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1 hour ago, Jivi Khehar said:

Not too bad to swap heater valve -2 hours

Remember to use airlift to vacuum cooling system,before filling.

@ micheal  that is why i am wondering how it is being monitored?

We use vacuum on almost all our cooling system refills...love that tool.....

Maybe transmission temperature vs engine coolant temperature?

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If you're doing an oil service on 986/987/996/997 cars always cut open
the oil filter to verify for ferrous and non ferrous objects!

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Yes, but this is the valve for the heater system.

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32 minutes ago, Jivi Khehar said:

Yes, but this is the valve for the heater system.

It is inline with the transmission cooler....maybe that's why they store codes under the transmission

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14 hours ago, David Camp-Martin said:

If you're doing an oil service on 986/987/996/997 cars always cut open
the oil filter to verify for ferrous and non ferrous objects!

Good to know David....I don't remember seeing anything previously on the 2.7 or 3.2 engines about this.
Is there an inherent problem with them causing excessive wear?

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Intermediate shaft bearing aka IMS. M96 and M97 engine series were affected.
There are a few different IMS setups through the years.
Also sometimes you will find chain guide material etc...

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Damn Son, you are FAST!

Was just adding some of the information that YOU just added, while on the phone with a Cloud Service.

YES........we are moving to the Cloud.  Front-end is an 8-Core Xenon 3.5GHz Intel, 16_Gig of RAM,
and Solid State Drives (Lightning Server Speed for the Group!)

Thanks for dropping that information on this POST, I have a lot of footwork to do, to make this Cloud
Service happen.

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OK...installed coolant shut off valve

  • Repaired altered wiring harness. Looks like someone did a half ass job of swapping a salvage motor
  • Replaced vacuum and crankcase hoses that were damaged and possibly installed incorrectly.

No emission sticker in the engine bay.

Does anybody have one to double check what we did? I think we have it right.

  • Cleared codes....
  • Started vehicle and we have the following....
  • Low rough sometimes no idle.
  • Will free rev freely and smoothly cold and warm
  • Have CEL and Tiptronic Emergency Run Display on

Have the following code(s)...

  • 93 Coolant Shutoff Valve
  • P0327 Knock Sensor 1
  • 1397 ? NO info yet

Going to run the smoke machine on the intake after lunch....

I need to make sure I have the vacuum connected correctly for this 986. It appears there was a
motor swap and someone butchered the engine bay.

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